{"id":1887,"date":"2016-07-19T09:56:48","date_gmt":"2016-07-19T14:56:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/?page_id=1887"},"modified":"2020-11-09T22:57:13","modified_gmt":"2020-11-10T03:57:13","slug":"the-problem-with-just-google-it-and-look-at-wikipedia","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/learning\/the-problem-with-just-google-it-and-look-at-wikipedia\/","title":{"rendered":"Search bubbles and you"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>People, when asked for sources of their information, will sometimes say &#8220;Just look at Wikipedia&#8221; or &#8220;Just google it.&#8221;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is not terribly helpful. You probably knew that. What you might not know is all of the reasons it&#8217;s not helpful. These come down to the fact that human beings are as diverse about their search methods as they are about everything else. And then computers complicate things on top of that. Read on to learn more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"900\" height=\"120\" src=\"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/learning-header.png\" alt=\"Learning: quill on a green background\" class=\"wp-image-3961\" srcset=\"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/learning-header.png 900w, https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/learning-header-300x40.png 300w, https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/learning-header-768x102.png 768w, https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/learning-header-150x20.png 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 900px) 100vw, 900px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s the basic issue?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Basically, without mind-reading ability (and probably sitting down at your computer), my searching on a topic is going to get different results from you searching on the same topic. Or anyone else. Let&#8217;s look at why.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, what should you know about it, in a few words? (Further explanations follow)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>1) The searches you do will probably get&nbsp;different results than the searches someone else does, partly for reasons you can&#8217;t control.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>2) When you want to discuss a particular site or source with others, you&#8217;re probably going to need to say more than &#8220;Just google it.&#8221; While the precise site address is best, giving people the search terms you used will at least make it easier to track down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>3) It&#8217;s a very big Internet out there: the more we can point people at the useful bits, in a human-friendly manner, the better our conversations about it will be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Wikipedia has many pages:<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>At the moment I am typing this\u00a0(late evening Eastern US time on July 3, 2016) the English language Wikipedia has\u00a05,186,592 pages.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>(Note that pages will hae changed a lot since!) <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Many of those pages are about unique topics, but others are about very similar topics, but have vastly different levels of information. Some have been thoroughly edited and revised, others are bare stubs (the term for very basic pages.) Some show clear signs of multiple informed, cohesive, thoughtful edits. Others are really clearly someone&#8217;s pet topic, without a lot of other input or clarifying voices.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, just saying &#8220;Go look at Wikipedia&#8221; for a \u00a0topic &#8211; without discussing a specific page &#8211; means that someone can end up on a page like this on on <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Natural_magic\"><strong>natural magi<\/strong>c<\/a> (a brief discussion focusing on historical usage)\u00a0with two references and a handful of other topics to look at, or <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/White_magic\">this one about white magic<\/a> <\/strong>(historical and current uses) with more references, or perhaps <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Witchcraft\"><strong>the main page on witchcraft<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0(a much longer discussion, covering a range of places and time periods with many references.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first page is about 180 words, the second is 900, and the third is over 12,000 words. They&#8217;re all about related subjects, but very different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As you can imagine, these involve very different levels of detail and commentary. Someone who looks at the first page is going to have a very different sense of that topic than someone referring to the last one, even in the places the pages overlap. As another comparison, take a look at the Zodiac pages sometime. <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Zodiac\">The main page about the Zodiac<\/a><\/strong> has plenty of information and references, but if you click through to the western sign pages,<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aries_(astrology)\"> <\/a><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aries_(astrology)\">some of them only have a brief paragraph or two<\/a>,<\/strong> while <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Virgo_(astrology)\"><strong>others have a great deal more detail<\/strong>,<\/a> summaries of particular myths, and even astronomical details.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>These are only a few quick examples, but some looking around&nbsp;can find you plenty more. It happens in history (one figure has a lot of details, but information about others may not even appear on their pages!) It happens with specific events (the page of an individual involved may have different important info from the page about an event as a whole), and so on. It happens with TV shows &#8211; some seasons will have tons of detailed summaries, and then another season will have almost nothing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Only by knowing which page someone&#8217;s actually looking at can we figure out where a specific bit of information came from (and whether it&#8217;s accurate or not) or what sources to go look at further.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">People do searches differently:<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This is a much bigger topic than can fit in this essay, but in short: how I do an online search and how you do an online search are probably different. We may use the same terms, but not in the same order. More likely, though, we may use different terms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re an expert in a subject, and I&#8217;m not an expert in that subject, you may use precise terms and get very focused results. I might get much more general ones, and have to dig around for details. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>(Searches for medical terminology versus common terms for a disease can do this. Scientific names for \u00a0plant versus popular or folk names. Regional terms for something might be different than standardised ones. There are all sorts of possibilities\u00a0here.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes we&#8217;ll get a bunch of the same results, and some different ones &#8211; but if we aren&#8217;t using the same words in the same order, chances are we&#8217;re going to get noticeably different results. Even if we are using the same words in the same order, we probably will get different results, if we&#8217;re using Google or several other common search engines.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Search engines adapt to you<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Without getting extremely technical, the goal of many modern computer programs &#8211; including search engines &#8211; is to give you what you want, without you needing to ask for it, ideally with advertising that you also want to see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Search engines use a piece of code called an algorithm to help the search engine decide which results to show you in which order. (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.khanacademy.org\/computing\/computer-science\/algorithms\/intro-to-algorithms\/v\/what-are-algorithms\"><strong>A 5 minute overview of algorithms with transcript<\/strong><\/a>. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/technology\/2012\/dec\/16\/networker-algorithms-john-naughton\"><strong>An overview from the Guardian about the ways algorithms can affect our lives.<\/strong><\/a>) The same sort of thing controls what you see in your feed on Facebook, or Twitter, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some pieces of this decision are pretty straightforward and reasonable: many search engines give more weight to sites that get a lot of links from many different independent sources (in other words: sites many different people link to because they think it&#8217;s good or interesting) and give less weight to sites that are linked to by spammers or bots or other automated systems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But many search engines (not all) also keep track of what you&#8217;ve searched, and adjust your searches based on your searches (and what you clicked on) and other people&#8217;s searches, and what they clicked on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>(If you&#8217;re interested in a search engine that doesn&#8217;t, you&#8217;ll be interested in this<strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/duckduckgo.com\/privacy\">explanation from Duck Duck Go about their privacy policy<\/a><\/strong>, which includes some great explanations of the issues.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s why when you start typing in words in your search, other words might be suggested. Or why if you typo something, it may suggest the correct wording. If you&#8217;re searching for something about\u00a0Springfield, and you&#8217;re in Massachusetts and have done other searches about Springfield, it may suggest Massachusetts rather than Missouri (or any of the other <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Springfield\">many other places with that name<\/a>)<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are some ways around this (and <a href=\"https:\/\/privacy.google.com\/your-data.html\"><strong>many search engines, including Google, give you some ways to manage the data that&#8217;s stored<\/strong><\/a>, delete items, and so on &#8211; but your searches will generally still be used to affect the way the algorithm is balanced.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Much of this is what is now often called the filter bubble.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Popularised by a book (<em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Filter-Bubble-Personalized-Changing-Think\/dp\/0143121235\"><strong>The Filter Bubble: How the Personalized Web Is Changing What We Read and How We Think<\/strong><\/a>)<\/em>,<strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ted.com\/talks\/eli_pariser_beware_online_filter_bubbles?language=en\">TED talk<\/a><\/strong>, and other material by Eli Pariser, a filter bubble is basically what it sounds like: when you search for things, those things are used to give you more things like that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>A common example here is &#8220;You looked at this on Amazon, here are other things you might like&#8221; &#8211; really any recommendation service. This has implications both for privacy, but also for seeing things from other perspectives or by people with different experiences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/duckduckgo.com\/privacy\">Duck Duck Go also has a great non-technical and well-illustrated explanation<\/a>\u00a0a<\/strong>nd additional information.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h1 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What does this mean for us as users of technology?<\/h1>\n\n\n\n<p>Computers are very good at automated tasks, but they&#8217;re really not all that good at providing specific recommendations or ideas, and not good at all at sharing personal experiences. (At best, they can help us find other people&#8217;s.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If we&#8217;re in conversation with other people (and not computers), it probably makes sense for us to think about being human in that conversation, and sharing information in a way that keeps our humanity front and centre. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That usually means saying things like &#8220;Oh, I can&#8217;t remember now, but I remember I was searching on Wikipedia for something about the topic.&#8221; or &#8220;It was someone&#8217;s personal site, and I liked other things on it, but I don&#8217;t seem to have saved the link.&#8221; or &#8220;I think my search terms were blue rabbit single horn.&#8221; In other words, giving what information we do remember, and being honest about what we don&#8217;t remember.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/learning-google-683x1024.png\" alt=\"Title card: Why &quot;Just Google It&quot; does't work.\" class=\"wp-image-4622\" width=\"342\" height=\"512\" srcset=\"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/learning-google-683x1024.png 683w, https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/learning-google-200x300.png 200w, https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/learning-google-100x150.png 100w, https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/learning-google.png 735w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 342px) 100vw, 342px\" \/><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Last edited\u00a0December 25, 2016. Reformatted November 2020. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>People, when asked for sources of their information, will sometimes say &#8220;Just look at Wikipedia&#8221; or &#8220;Just google it.&#8221; This is not terribly helpful. You probably knew that. What you might not know is all of the reasons it&#8217;s not helpful. These come down to the fact that human beings\u2026 <a class=\"continue-reading-link\" href=\"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/learning\/the-problem-with-just-google-it-and-look-at-wikipedia\/\">Continue reading<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3970,"parent":2232,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-1887","page","type-page","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/P11EQH-ur","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":2579,"url":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/getting-started\/","url_meta":{"origin":1887,"position":0},"title":"Getting started","author":"jenett","date":"December 26, 2016","format":false,"excerpt":"Welcome to Seeking! This is a site that has grown over time, so a guide to finding your way around is in order. If you're looking for help with what order I suggest you read the site in, my guide to using the site will be helpful. Finding articles: You\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"Using the site: leaf on blue-green background","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/using.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":838,"url":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/doing\/journals-and-records\/","url_meta":{"origin":1887,"position":1},"title":"Journals and records","author":"jenett","date":"November 15, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"One great practice to get used to is keeping notes of what you're doing and learning. This doesn't need to be big, or formal, or even the method you're going to use a year from now. Instead, focus on reminders to yourself of what you've learned, found interesting, or experienced.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"self-awareness\"","block_context":{"text":"self-awareness","link":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/tag\/self-awareness\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Doing: spiral on a golden background","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/doing-header.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/doing-header.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/doing-header.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/doing-header.png?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":1789,"url":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/about\/a-way-to-get-started\/","url_meta":{"origin":1887,"position":2},"title":"Using this site","author":"jenett","date":"January 6, 2016","format":false,"excerpt":"One question I get occasionally is from people who are so overwhelmed they don't know where to start. I recommend reading all of the site that interests you, but if you want a guided way to get started, here's what I suggest. Learn some basics Start by reading the pages\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"step-by-step\"","block_context":{"text":"step-by-step","link":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/tag\/step-by-step\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Resources: books on a black background","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/resources-header.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/resources-header.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/resources-header.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/resources-header.png?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":119,"url":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/archive\/smart-questions\/","url_meta":{"origin":1887,"position":3},"title":"Asking Pagan questions the smart way","author":"jenett","date":"August 13, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"I spend a fair bit of time in new-folk friendly Pagan online spaces. People ask a lot of questions - but many of their questions are hard to answer because it's not really clear what they're asking. Some questions are way too broad to answer in a single post (\"Tell\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"resources\"","block_context":{"text":"resources","link":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/tag\/resources\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Building : tree with many leaves on deep green background","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/building.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":3009,"url":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/learning\/the-research-process\/","url_meta":{"origin":1887,"position":4},"title":"The Research Process","author":"jenett","date":"March 14, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"The research methods many people were taught in school is not very helpful for many other kinds of research, and this is perhaps particularly true for research for religious projects. This article briefly describes an approach that may work better for you and some other tips. Ways to do research:\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"resources\"","block_context":{"text":"resources","link":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/tag\/resources\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Icon - Learning - gold watercolor book","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/12\/book.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":328,"url":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/about\/contact-me\/","url_meta":{"origin":1887,"position":5},"title":"contact me","author":"jenett","date":"September 11, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"Welcome! You can use the form below to contact me, ask questions, share ideas, or other such things. (More information about contacting me is below the form if you find more details helpful.) Please check to make sure your email address is correct - otherwise I won't be able to\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"Resources icon: books on a black background","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/07\/resources-circle.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1887","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1887"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1887\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4623,"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/1887\/revisions\/4623"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/2232"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3970"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/gleewood.org\/seeking\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1887"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}