Why aren’t groups open to everyone?

The somewhat flippant answer to this – while still very accurate – is that living rooms hold only so many people.

See, most Pagan groups – and especially most religious witchcraft groups – are intentionally fairly small, because much of the way they work works best with a small number of people who can build up trust and connection with each other.

(There are larger open ritual groups, but these are generally focused either on a pretty specific goal, with some filtering, or they’re open to anyone, but focused on general celebrations and community.)

But most religious witchcraft groups do run smaller for a variety of  reasons:

1) Only so many people fit in the room.

I come back to this one first because really, it’s very practical. When a small group is meeting in personal space, you only get so far before it starts getting unwieldy. (And, of course, with a small group, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to either maintain a larger separate building, or sometimes even to rent one.)

For group work, the people hosting are going to want:

  • Enough parking for people who drive without annoying the neighbors.
  • Enough seating for everyone (chances are, most groups will have a couple of people who really need chairs, for various reasons, maybe a few people who prefer sitting on the floor, and some people who can do either.)
  • Enough clear space for ritual – it’s a lot easier to clear a space the size of a smallish dining room than it is to clear a space that will hold 20 comfortably. Moving furniture back to the walls of the living room only gets you so far.

For all sorts of reasons, this means that 10-15 people is about the upward size limit for working in someone’s home.

2) The personal connections are important.
Religious witchcraft work, in particular, tends to rely heavily on personal connections between participants in a group.

You probably know that the traditional size for a coven is 13 – but it turns out there’s a good psychological reason for this: that’s about the upper limit of how many individual connections we can maintain in the same social context. More than that, and groups tend to start fragmenting into smaller subgroups.

3) A clear, focused, group mind is part of the point.
One of the things behind the theory of coven work is that a group of people with a shared intention and focus can be exponentially more effective than individuals working on their own. However, you’ve got keep people focused in the same direction – which has some size limits due to the practical and psychological factors noted above.

4) In a given group, some people will be a good fit right now, and others won’t.
It doesn’t mean that the people who aren’t aren’t good people – or competent witches, or whatever else you want to talk about. They’re just not a good fit for that particular group right now.

This is something we really should be used to. Good managers at jobs look to hire people who will make a well-rounded set of skills. Coaches of sports teams look for people who complement each other’s skills. Covens and small religious groups work the same way: you want people who have enough in common that working together makes sense, but who bring enough different things that there’s variety and flexibility and different options available.

5) Adding new people to a group is especially time-consuming.
First, you have to spend a fair bit of time getting to know each other, to even figure out if you’ve got a possible good fit. In my group, this takes 3-6 meetings, and usually about 15 hours of time (including the initial email stages) on both sides.

But after that, there’s still the time and energy to get someone up to speed in the group. Most religious witchcraft traditions cover a chunk of material to get someone to a point where they’re solid in the basics of their particular practice – usually something that takes 5-8 hours a month (at least) of dedicated teaching time in some form. Obviously, groups are sometimes going to be better able to do that at some points than at others.

6) Groups also go through internal cycles.
A given group might be up for taking in several prospective new members one year. The next year, they might hit their practical limit for numbers. Or maybe the people who normally teach have some health challenges, or some high demands at work, or something else that means they don’t have quite as much time or energy to spare to teach a new member of the group or see how they fit in. Since we’re talking small groups, lead by volunteers who host and teach because they think it’s important, these things can cause some significant pauses for good reason.

The good news is that often those things shift again in a year or two. More advanced students of the tradition may get to a point where they can form a new group. Health or job issues can shift back and allow more time for the group. They may figure out some way to spread out the workload that’s more sustainable.

What does it all mean?
Most simply, it means that lots of people – no matter how nice or great or wonderful they are – won’t be a great fit with every group. But it also means that the groups they might be a fit with might go through periods when, for whatever reason, they’re not taking in new students or new members.

If eventual group work is important to you, patience helps a lot, as well as finding ways to continue to learn and grow that make group work more accessible later.

[last updated October 28, 2011]

Groups and safety concerns

I’ve written a lot about things to consider when looking at a group in the CARE pages (Conscious Awareness of Religious Environments), but I want to highlight a few particular issues when you’re first meeting a prospective group or teacher here.

  • Meet in public the first time.
  • Be thoughtful about the information you share (and why)
  • Be able to leave easily if you feel uncomfortable.
  • Be aware of warning signs and safety concerns.
  • Trust your intuition.

Meet in public the first time.

There are lots of good choices for a first meeting. Sometimes this might be a coffee house. Sometimes it might be a food court at a mall, or a public restaurant.

Whatever it is, it shouldn’t be at your home, and it shouldn’t be at their home. You don’t know each other yet. I usually pick a coffee shop in my neighborhood – this means that people will have a general idea how long it will take to get later discussions/rituals they might be invited to, if things go well.

Meeting somewhere public acknowledges that you’re both getting to know each other. You’re not going to a stranger’s home (where it might be uncomfortable to leave if you don’t feel right about the conversation.) They’re showing some good sense by not revealing where they live to a random stranger.

(Most folks in the Pagan community are good people, but like all communities we have some people who get strange obsessions into their head. Sensible group leaders don’t want the occasional person like this to show up on their doorstep in the middle of the night.)

If a group leader won’t meet you in public (without a good reason – mobility issues are a good reason, but “I’d just rather not” isn’t), ask if you can bring a friend to your initial meeting, or if you can meet somewhere they can get to easily.

On sharing identifying information:

This is a personal choice. Often, groups will ask for some kind of initial information from you. Sometimes that’s a full name and contact info (email, phone, etc.) Sometimes it’s astrological information. (Many groups – including mine – use it to look at some general potential patterns, and see if there are any things we might want to explore in more depth when we talk.)

Don’t give information you don’t feel comfortable sharing. Healthy groups should be fine with you asking why they need that information (and why they ask for it at a particular stage in the process), or be fine with you giving only the information you’re comfortable with initially.

Have a way to leave easily if you need:

This goes both for an initial meeting, and for your first visit or two to the group itself. Having your own car makes this easy. If you normally take the bus, you should have a good idea of the bus schedule. It can also be a good idea to have cab fare handy (and know the easiest place to get picked up.)

If you’re really uncertain, ask the group if they’re doing a more public event any time soon, where you could bring a friend/spouse/whatever as a guest to see what you’re checking out.

Be aware of warning signs.

This goes both for signs of a disorganized and chaotic group, and for signs of a manipulative or abusive group. The CARE deeper question pages go into this in much more detail.

Be aware of other safety concerns.

As you get to know the group and group members, pay attention to what kinds of regular safety precautions they take. Ritual work – as I talk about elsewhere on this site – can have some risks and dangers, both in very practical ways (candles involve fire) and in psychological ways. You want to work with people who think about both parts of that. The Safety Tips and Notes essay has more things to think about.

Use common sense.

As I talk about elsewhere (on the Feeling Silly? essay), new things often feel strange or funny to us. However, most of us can tell the difference between something that’s new and different (and a bit weird to us), and something that’s scary. Trust those instincts. If something feels really off to you, trust your instinct to leave. Consider going to a public place instead of straight home (where you might jump at little sounds.)

[last edited January 14, 2011]

Teacher vs. group

People sometimes want to find a teacher, rather than a group. For various reasons – some of which you might not expect – this is not always as simple as the other way round. (Even though groups take more coordination.)

(Note that the following mostly don’t apply to situations where you have a primary teacher or mentor, but are also working and learning  in a group context, as is common in many groups.)

Continue reading Teacher vs. group

Setting aside assumptions from other religions

Sometimes, Pagan religions – and especially religious witchcraft ones – are very confusing to people coming from other religions, especially Christianity. Many of the priorities and assumptions seem very different.

There’s a good reasons for that: often they are! Here are a few things you might want to notice as you start looking at various Pagan paths.

Continue reading Setting aside assumptions from other religions

Online training – what should you ask?

People far away from other groups and teachers often wonder about online training, and what it has to offer. The answer’s a little complicated, but sums up as: there are some things (mostly facts and the things you could learn from a book) that can be shared online, but that there are other things – and they may be very important things for a particular path or practice – that can’t.

First, a quick list of questions to think about – and then some larger points to think about.

Continue reading Online training – what should you ask?

Does it matter?

Over time, I’ve seen people ask questions about issues that don’t necessarily matter as much as they look like at first glance. Paganism isn’t quite like anything else – so some legal, religious, and organizational structures don’t actually help groups or teachers function well.

Below are a few things you probably shouldn’t worry about – and what you should pay attention to instead.

  • 501(c)3 tax-exempt status (instead, look for good fiscal management)
  • formal academic/professional credentials  (look for relevant references and experience.)
  • formal by-laws or documents (look for aligned practice and explanation.)
  • dedicated space (look for a plan that works for the group and members).
  • an always available leader (look for good communication)

Continue reading Does it matter?

Learning about a group

First, there are a number of possible sources of information (in general terms). However, they share different kinds of information, so it can be good to have a reminder of what to look for (and expect) from a given source.

Continue reading Learning about a group

Making a first contact by email

It can be sort of scary to send an email to a stranger about a subject that’s new to you. You don’t know when you’ll hear back, or how friendly they’ll be. Fortunately, you can do some things to make it easier for yourself

Continue reading Making a first contact by email

Finding Pagan groups

One question I hear a lot is “How can I find groups near me?” It can be a frustrating search, and some of the best resources aren’t obvious to newcomers. While there are different ways to go about this, here’s my suggested method.

Continue reading Finding Pagan groups

Asking Pagan questions the smart way

I spend a fair bit of time in new-folk friendly Pagan online spaces. People ask a lot of questions – but many of their questions are hard to answer because it’s not really clear what they’re asking.

Some questions are way too broad to answer in a single post (“Tell me everything you know about Wicca”). Some are vague (“I’ve read a bunch of books, and I don’t know what to do next.”) Some leave out important details (“I came across this word in a book, and can’t find it anywhere, and what does it mean?” is a lot easier to answer if someone tells you where they saw the word in the first place.)

So, this document is an attempt to provide information on asking better questions. It’s inspired by a fabulous document on how to ask technology questions, called How To Ask Questions The Smart Way. I’ve kept the basic structure – but adapted a number of aspects for both Pagan topics, and for the kinds of resources people often use for these questions. I’ve also used largely Wiccan (or eclectic) examples – both because those are the questions that I tend to answer the most, but also because they’re among the most common types of questions.

Continue reading Asking Pagan questions the smart way